Curse

ValaOfTheFens · Jun 19, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I too am poorer since loot scaling has been implemented. I've been working to finish all 3 campaigns so I can get HM in all 3(I have HM in Prophesies and am pretty close in NF) and also trying to get all my toons to level 20(3 were at 20 before HM and I've gotten 2 more to 16). Buying max armor for each toon has been a real chore. My Necromancer has an armor set for each attribute(other than SR

) and only one set has full Radiant insignia(it was Radiant before all the armor could have insignia). My Ranger's armor needs a few more runes and insignia. I just got my Rit to Kaineng and she needs max armor to survive the stronger foes. But I simply can't afford to so all that just by playing the game. The quest rewards a paltry at best. What can I do with 100g-250g? Doing missions doesn't gain me much loot at all. I'm lucky to get 500g worth of drops and gold. Even places like Tomb I end up spending more money than I make. Armor itself isn't very expensive but the crafting materials(which drop less often) and the extras like runes are still costly. I don't want to be rich. I just want to outfit my toons with good equipment. I want to be able to afford any skill I want, when I want it.

ANet says that grinding isn't necessary to make money but I don't think thats true. If you don't grind you have to settle for substandard weapons and armor and your GW experience isn't all it could be.

upier · Jun 19, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

A-Net said that with the loot scaling, casual players would be able to buy cool weapons etc. (Which means they're about 1K each). So did this happen? NO.

actually id say this did happen.
from what i have seen - except for a few items most tanked. the prices went down down down.
the problem is of course the fact that i don't need that bloody colossal sword-thingy for 5k!
i can manage with a collectors item for free just because it has the same freaking stats! what i can't live without is max armour nor the lack of skills.
that's the problem - vanity items tanked - but items that should be accessible to everyone had a fixed price and now that less gold is coming in - those prices are relatively rising!

ohh and we seriously NEED a definition of a casual player these days.
because "casual player" and "HM farming" just aren't two terms that fit together in my book!

Dione Davore · Jun 19, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Currently I am earing more money than ever before.

Levi Garett · Jun 19, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I made more money before loot scaling but I'm still enjoying farming in HM. I can still easily make 10k/hour not counting the rare drops that I attempt to sell. One Elite Tome is 10k+ and I get them all the time...at least one every couple hours on my farming route.

Loot scaling has definately destroyed the economy though. I have a storage account full of Req 9's that I can't seem to sell to save my life. I think people are just being tight with their money since gold coins have become harder to get. Perhaps this might change once GW:EN is released?

ANet's plan definately backfired. They wanted to encourage player to player sales of rare items and the market for these items has crashed considerably. Most people had already bought the items they needed at that point in time. The only desireable items left are the "uber" high end items that are 100k+. Don't believe me? Look at the "Buy" section in Ventari's Corner. Flooding the market with your run-of-the-mill "rare" items certainly didn't help the economy. Nowadays I just merch anything that isn't Req 9 (unless it's a rare skin) and my storage is now overflowing with items that nobody seems to want. I'm not asking a lot for these items either, and compared to pre-loot scaling prices I'm practically giveing it away.

Visit the farming sub-forum if you need help farming for gold. There's plenty of potential there to make 10k+ an hour, and one nice "rare" drop will net you plenty of gold to buy all the skills and kits you'll need for a long time.

reetkever · Jun 19, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

actually id say this did happen.
from what i have seen - except for a few items most tanked. the prices went down down down.
the problem is of course the fact that i don't need that bloody colossal sword-thingy for 5k!
i can manage with a collectors item for free just because it has the same freaking stats! what i can't live without is max armour nor the lack of skills.
that's the problem - vanity items tanked - but items that should be accessible to everyone had a fixed price and now that less gold is coming in - those prices are relatively rising!

ohh and we seriously NEED a definition of a casual player these days.
because "casual player" and "HM farming" just aren't two terms that fit together in my book!

Go to Kamadan dis 1, or when you want to see the big examples, Ascalon international dis 1.

Things are still being sold for 100K + ecto's. I haven't seen weapons that can't be mass farmed lower in price. Only the farm-able item's (Colossal Sword, Dead Sword, for example) prices went down very fast. But I'd like to thank the farmers for that, and not A-Net.

In my opinion, a "casual player" is someone who plays about 3 hours or less per day, and doesn't spend all the time farming. As it is now, however, A-net forces us to farm, if everything we need costs 1K or more.

I wasn't a casual gamer before, back in Guild War's best days, I farmed alot of trolls, and it was fun. If I could farm them now, however, 10 minutes per day would be enough. Nothing 'Hardcore farming' about that, is there? 10 minutes per day without interruptions, farm locks or nerfs, and I'd be happy. Cause I could buy at least the skills I need. Armor costs a bit more, and vanity costs hell of alot more, but I'm prepared to do some more for these things.

I am NOT prepared, however, to spend all my game time killing monsters for only 600 gold. I can barely buy a sup ID kit for that cash. Let alone quest/mission with the equipment I need. IMO, a player farming HM for 15 minutes, and then buy the stuff he needs, and goes on questing/missioning, is still a casual player. And IMO, being able to make cash from that is a good thing.

A-Net is constantly saying that people are overpricing things, but A-Net is the one making skills cost 1K each, armor 7,5K and the quest rewards so low. I think that in a certain extend, A-Net created this problem themselves.

wetsparks · Jun 19, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

That is your problem, you got sup id kits. regular ones work exactly the same, buy them. only id blue/purple/gold items whites arent worth it. only salvage runes you want or are worth money to others. if it doesnt say "highly salvageable" dont salvage it for materials. just sell that stuff to the merchant. do this and you shold make atleast 1k per mission from the mid point on.

Burning Blade · Jun 19, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

I consider myself as heavy farmer because I used to keep maxing out inventory gold limit. Now my money keeps going down lower and lower again as I spend more than earning (runes, lockpicks, try new armors). Golds drop plenty for me but too difficult to sell so I merched almost everything (after getting valuable mods of course).

Alas Poor Yorick · Jun 19, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

8. Farm in hard mode.

There's the problem right there!

Yes, once I learned how to survive hard mode and even do a little solo farming in it I began to rake in the cash and to save a great deal- those golds salvage into good mods, runes and materials (high frequency of rare) so that I almost never have to buy from a trader at all anymore.

But without Hard Mode I was getting nothing.

In other words, starting players and casual farmers (farming in NM) - the ones that were supposed to benefit soooo much from loot scaling -got the shaft. Meanwhile, the hard core farmer adapted to hard mode to get more than they did before the update.

I know a lot of you are saying you are making more money than ever from loot scaling. Try playing strictly in normal mode and then tell me how much you made!

Swift Thief · Jun 19, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Farming is as fast as ever with hard mode. Dude, gold items are everywhere!

xshadowwolfx · Jun 19, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

eh...I love loot scalling.

Before I had to farm to get enough cash to get armor and weps once in a while, but now just by playing normally Im getting lots of gold drops and cash.

The amount of money I'm getting is about normal, but everything costs less now. Think about Zodiacs, ectos, dyes, and runes for instance.

Ecto prices have dropped from a peak of 9k to 6k.
Zodiacs prices have dropped from millions for perfects to around 100k.
Black dye prices also once 10k-8k are now 5k-6k.
Runes used to be several 100g with some being 1k+, but now there all relatively cheaper.

Whats there to complain about? You get more money more golds and everything costs less just for playing normally. But don't expect to being raking in money. Do get to really rich you still need to farm, but a casual player is now able to get by and if he saves up a little get a nice skinned item.

edit: Also don't forget about mods.

+30 Shield went from 30kish to 10k
-5/20% Dropped from 30kish to 20kish
+30 Sword Pommel went from 50k to 20kish
+30 forts for everything else is under 10k now.
Superior Vigor used to be 30k now you can find people selling it for 10-12k

I made 200k in the past month from playing normally....no farming. Just did quests/missions and got a few good gold drops and elite tomes. Also remember to open all of your treasure chests. They add up to 20k + golds per chest.

KANE OG · Jun 19, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Go to Kamadan dis 1, or when you want to see the big examples, Ascalon international dis 1.

Things are still being sold for 100K + ecto's.

I don't believe that for a minute. I do an experiment every now and then when I pop into one of those areas. I see someone spamming an outrageous price for something, and when he moves on to someplace else to spam, I begin asking in all chat if anyone bought the thing. Not one "yes".... ever. And trust me, I get around.

People are ATTEMPTING to sell things for that much, that's all. Even the Gur auctions are filled with people who bid and don't buy.

KANE

Gli · Jun 20, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

I've been spending all my time playing HM, vanquishing, and I'm having a hard time keeping my gold total level. I blame lock picks, because they're the only thing I spend gold on. Nothing I find is worth a dime and I'm steadily losing gold with them, even buying them at 1250-1300. They just don't earn themselves back for me. Random loot (Luck and Treasure Hunter both at 5)

kazjun · Jun 20, 2007, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by KANE OG

I don't believe that for a minute. I do an experiment every now and then when I pop into one of those areas. I see someone spamming an outrageous price for something, and when he moves on to someplace else to spam, I begin asking in all chat if anyone bought the thing. Not one "yes".... ever. And trust me, I get around.

People are ATTEMPTING to sell things for that much, that's all. Even the Gur auctions are filled with people who bid and don't buy.

KANE

Like he said, just cause someone's trying to sell for 100+ectos doesn't mean that anyone bought it. Check the auctions here even, see what price's people have set as starting bids, and see how many actually have that price met. You'll see a ton of stuff with no bids.

Diddy bow · Jun 20, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levi Garett

I made more money before loot scaling but I'm still enjoying farming in HM. I can still easily make 10k/hour not counting the rare drops that I attempt to sell. One Elite Tome is 10k+ and I get them all the time...at least one every couple hours on my farming route.

Loot scaling has definately destroyed the economy though. I have a storage account full of Req 9's that I can't seem to sell to save my life. I think people are just being tight with their money since gold coins have become harder to get. Perhaps this might change once GW:EN is released?

ANet's plan definately backfired. They wanted to encourage player to player sales of rare items and the market for these items has crashed considerably. Most people had already bought the items they needed at that point in time. The only desireable items left are the "uber" high end items that are 100k+. Don't believe me? Look at the "Buy" section in Ventari's Corner. Flooding the market with your run-of-the-mill "rare" items certainly didn't help the economy. Nowadays I just merch anything that isn't Req 9 (unless it's a rare skin) and my storage is now overflowing with items that nobody seems to want. I'm not asking a lot for these items either, and compared to pre-loot scaling prices I'm practically giveing it away.

Visit the farming sub-forum if you need help farming for gold. There's plenty of potential there to make 10k+ an hour, and one nice "rare" drop will net you plenty of gold to buy all the skills and kits you'll need for a long time.

Yep, i fell the same way, id merch anythign from nf that isnt an ele sword or somthing (unless it has a nice mod). The market became flooded after golds became one of the few vaiable things to farm, so everyone did it. I make far less sales between other players now. As deos everyone else i have asked about it. If you ever do see anyone looking to buy somthing at a lower end price generally people will literally throw masses of it at them for tiny prices. I doubt i would have got far as a new player today. But im getting along just fine for the moment only because i already have everything i "need" and im just saving for high end things now. So i agree the plan has backfired...

cellardweller · Jun 20, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

Farming is as fast as ever with hard mode. Dude, gold items are everywhere!

For every gold item that sells for 300g you are missing out on 50 items that sell for 50gp.

Loviatar · Jun 20, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

What DID happen, is people getting poor. Going from 100K to 5K while just buying needed stuff is just not right. Clearing ENTIRE AREA'S in Hard Mode only nets one about 600 gold, which excludes the bonus cash for clearing, but you still gotta buy ID Kits and Salvage Kits.

I THINK THIS CAN BE FIGURED OUT

GIVE US AN ITEMIZED LIST OF WHAT YOU SPENT 95 THOUSAND ON THAT YOU CONSIDER NEEDED STUFF AND BE SPECIFIC

i think we will find a lot of actually unneeded stuff in there if you list it.

if you cant remember how you blew 95 THOUSAND GOLD that points out the problem right there

Quote:

So why the hell is the loot scaling still here? Are we supposed to farm a week just to buy some descent skills? Are we supposed to save our cash for 5 months in order to buy 1,5K armor? Is this the way you keep your people playing, A-Net?

i can vermin farm the lowlands for at least 2/3 skills an hour or 1 piece of DROK armor

Quote:

Once again, a farm nerf update ruins the economy, and casual players who NEEDED to farm in order to buy skills, armor and keys are screwed.

RIGHT THERE

KEYS ARE A GOLD SINK

Quote:

Please tell me A-Net, how the hell am I supposed to make cash, only playing 2 hours a day, and getting only about 10K per week?

i can make close to 3k per hour on that vermin hunt in the lowlands that i showed you step by step

THAT IS ABOUT 20K PER WEEK WITH ONLY 1 FARMING HOUR

USE 2 HOURS THAT IS 40+K PER WEEK OR OVER 150K PER MONTH

spellsword · Jun 20, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

i can vermin farm the lowlands for at least 2/3 skills an hour or 1 piece of DROK armor

You make this sound like a good thing. Having to farm for one hour only to get 2/3 skills is a lot, for "casual" players even more so.

reetkever · Jun 20, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

I THINK THIS CAN BE FIGURED OUT

GIVE US AN ITEMIZED LIST OF WHAT YOU SPENT 95 THOUSAND ON THAT YOU CONSIDER NEEDED STUFF AND BE SPECIFIC

i think we will find a lot of actually unneeded stuff in there if you list it.

if you cant remember how you blew 95 THOUSAND GOLD that points out the problem right there

Let's see there, over a 200K on skills (I didn't spend, but made cash, as well). I was trying out new stuff in Hard Mode, but appearently that did me in -.-
I also do all the events, I buy Lockpicks when there is a chest event, I buy tickets when there is a board walk open. Can't causal players enjoy these things?

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

i can vermin farm the lowlands for at least 2/3 skills an hour or 1 piece of DROK armor

So I have to spend half my game time farming these things, for only 2/3 skills? I don't have that much time to spend on killing monsters, almost without getting loot.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

RIGHT THERE

KEYS ARE A GOLD SINK

So what? The entire game is a gold sink. And I have no problems with it. However, if A-net claims they're making stuff accesable for everyone, and that isn't true, I do have a problem.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

i can make close to 3k per hour on that vermin hunt in the lowlands that i showed you step by step

THAT IS ABOUT 20K PER WEEK WITH ONLY 1 FARMING HOUR

USE 2 HOURS THAT IS 40+K PER WEEK OR OVER 150K PER MONTH

That's good for you, but I don't feel like farming for 1 hour per day, when only playing 2 hours. Especially not for only 3K. I also don't play every day in the week, and even if I did, 20K per week isn't much. This excludes stuff like ID Kits, Salvage Kits, and stuff like keys (I don't care if they're a gold sink, casual players should be able to open a chest once in a while imo).

Also the cool special weekend event takes away all your collected money if you want to participate. Yay, Triple fun! But the first few weeks after the weekend, it's triple more farming in order to get the cash back...

Some people might play 4 hours or more per day, and they can afford a few hours of farming. But I can't. Let's say I want to try a build on my assassin, I gotta farm for 2 days just to buy 1 set of skills? And then there's A-Net, laughing in the back of their office, feeling good because they think they made everything more accesable for casual players :'(

pork soldier · Jun 20, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

There's something interesting that most people are missing here. By reducing the number of gold coins in circulation ANet was attempting to give casual players more buying power. They succeeded in making gold more valuable, but not in giving casual players more buying power.

Stay with me here as long as you can, farmers aren't casual players. As soon as you start farming for money for something you're no longer casual, you've got a goal and you're trying to achieve it. At that point you're out of the realm of the casual player that ANet was trying to help.

I don't know what to tell you there, I think they screwed up in where they drew the distinction. They need to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to limit farmers without limiting new players who aren't particularly money savvy.

I'll tell you exactly what loot scaling has done. I don't farm any more, I just buy things I want. The money I piled up before loot scaling now works tremendously in my favor. If you're like me and you're sitting on a pile of gold and lockpicks then you're pretty happy. If you're new and not particularly savvy then you're somewhat screwed.

Once again, GG Anet.

Dougal Kronik · Jun 20, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Try getting enough gold with the stupid Loot Scaling to get Legendary Skill Hunter, Incorrigible Ale Hound, or Treasure Hunter.

Loot Scaling sucked when they introduced it, it failed to slow the bots at all, and what did it do for the casual player - NOTHING! Farmers had their greens, rare materials, and rare items exempt from the Loot Scaling, therefore UW/FOW farmers, boss farmers, and IDS farmers got off free.